Interview: Josh Ritter

[pullquote author ="Josh Ritter"]It was when I was listening to Johnny Cash and Bob Dylan that I realised that I felt differently than other people around me. I realised that I wanted to write songs.[/pullquote]

This is a great job. I get free music and I get to write about it (somewhere the 15 year old version of me’s head is exploding through disbelief that I got this lucky). Then every now and then you get even luckier and you get to do something you really never thought you would.

Josh Ritter has been one of my favourite songwriters for years and as you can tell from the review, I am a fan. Getting the chance to interview him, albeit over the phone, was a pleasure.

I’ve read numerous interviews with him and people always write about how nice he is. It’s nice when people are on the money. Friendly and engaging, he was a great interview. He is also a generous guy. As soon as I mentioned I will be going to see him live he give me free tickets and backstage passes so I could drop in and say hello.

From his musical past and musical present, to the uncertainty of the future itself, we talked song writing, playing live, the competitiveness of marriage and famous fans.

You’re from Moscow Idaho. What was the defining moment that made you want to be rich and famous?

(Laughs) I don’t think I ever wanted to be. In Moscow imaginations grow big but not necessarily in that direction. I discovered that I wanted to be a musician because it was the only thing that made sense to me. It was the only language that I could fiddle around with, you know, wrestling, swim team, talking to girls was still incredibly painful. It was the only thing that made me feel different. It was the only thing that made me feel extraordinary in any way. It was when I was listening to Johnny Cash and Bob Dylan that I realised that I felt differently than other people around me. I realised that I wanted to write songs.

You made your first three records The Golden Age of Radio then Hello Starling then The Animal Years and with each one, the craft got better and the sound got fuller. Then you made The Historical Conquests of Josh Ritter which was a big a musical jump as much as it was a song writing jump. It was a new sound. Was that planned or did it feel organic?

It felt pretty organic to me. Anything that anybody writes is waiting to be written. The subject matter and the exteriors stuff my change but the side of you that creates it is always in there. I imagine for someone like Leonard Cohen the part that wrote Suzanne is different from the part that wrote something much later. It’s a different part but those songs were just waiting to get written and I feel that’s how it works with me. Conquests was exciting, it was like finding a door in the wall and thinking wow there’s this whole other secret garden here. It was another part of my musical path that I didn’t know was there, but it was there just waiting for me to work with Sam (Kassirer, the albums producer) and to find it. After finding it, it became a tremendously exciting thing. And that’s what you’re trying to do each time, to find the new secret room.

Your new record is out, So Runs the World Away. When you wrote this record did you feel like the door was clearly there?

Yeah, I just had lots of confidence you know. I had lost my groove which happens to everybody on occasion but it had never happened to me. I always felt sure about what I was doing. It was a really strange moment. There’s this guy and he can identify whole new clusters of galaxies, he can find new supernovas just by looking in the sky. He sees things that only he can have the ability to see, tiny new specks in a huge sky. And sometimes writing is like that where you throw everything out there and put everything down that you’re thinking about. Then for some reason a few little things glint out at you and you pick those things. They don’t glint out for any particular reason, they’re just the ones that stick out so you pick them and write about them. That’s how this record came together. After a couple years of writing and getting nothing there was a lot of stuff to choose from, so when something finally glinted, which was The Curse, the idea of a mummy and an archaeologist, it became much easier to write.

On the subject of The Curse the music video is awesome. I didn’t think puppets could make a good video.

Thanks, I’ll pass that along. I wish I could take more credit for it. Liam (Hurley, the drummer) is just such an amazing artist you know.

So Runs the World Away is fundamentally a darker record and it’s very much a storytellers record. When you got those moments how excited were you to be able to let your imagination go?

Well it’s really exciting. I agree with you that it’s a much darker record. It’s the effect of writing a story. There’s jokes, there’s stories and then there’s stories. Something has to happen to the main character and usually if there’s something that happens immediately that’s good there has to be repercussions or else there’s no story. A lot of love songs are about a moment, a single moment but for this record I was interested about what happens afterward. So it was exciting because I realised that I could let bad things happen to my characters in a way that hasn’t happened before.

What I like about the records that you make is that you manage to juxtapose moments of sadness with moments of sweetness. And on Conquests there were some comedic moments. On this record you have songs like Lantern and Lark that you don’t see coming, so when you play the record through it becomes a journey that you take us on. Do you always try and do that? Or do you decide on a narrative and that’s what you stick to?

I think that a record is a little bit like a show. My personal taste runs to things that have some lightness in the dark. I feel that’s what Mark Twain was always about and some of my favourite authors are about. Even when they get really dark they’re also really funny. I personally feel that the dark stuff is the easiest stuff to write about. It’s always harder to find the good things and to find optimism. That’s just the way it is. When I hear a record that is unrelentingly dark I don’t think somebody’s working super hard. But that’s me and there’s technical skill that’s in there as well.  I don’t want to see a show that tells me everything is screwed (laughs). I already know that, I want to go to a show to forget that fact. I see enough evidence around us everyday to tell me where screwed. I want to see the better parts.

Whilst were talking about playing live, you’re touring here in the autumn. The first time ever saw you and heard of you was when you supported Counting Crows at the Manchester Apollo. Now you’re touring on your own, people are supporting you and you have more musicians on the stage. How has the live experience changed?

I love it. It’s a lot like a marriage with the people on stage. You get better at things and you learn about each other and that only makes the show better. It’s a really funny time when you’re on stage. This whole period has been interesting. I love playing with a band. When I first started I was only playing by myself all the time and that’s something I was really grateful for because as time when on and I started to get a band there’s a potential for you to move away from the crowd and to forget that the experience is one that involves the crowd and is about the crowd. The band that I play with really understands that and they’re interested, excited and generous performers. They show that the other person at the table is the crowd and that it’s a conversation. I love it so much. That’s the best thing about playing for so long, is playing with this band.

You mentioned marriage. Your wife (Dawn Landers) is a talented musician in her own right and is supporting you on this tour. I have to ask how competitive is the Ritter household when it comes to making music?

Its funny, any good relationship has an element of competition in it and where both very competitive people (laughs) so it does get competitive. But there’s a whole bunch of stuff that she can do that I can only bite my fist and wish I could, whether it’s the studio work that she does or the people she gets to tour with. Im getting competitive now (laughs).

You’ve played some big rooms in your career but is there any one place you have your eye on that you say to yourself that’s the prize that’s where I want to go play?

 

Oh yeah. There are some and there are some unexpected ones too but I’ve never really had much of an imagination for it. But, there have been times on stage where it hits me and I think this is an amazing moment. I played the Royal Albert Hall with Ray LaMontagne and though t what a pleasure it was to be able to play in this beautiful place with another band I love so much. I played in Carnegie Hall for a tribute to Bruce Springsteen and I was so happy because I’d never been in that room till that moment. Those moments are great. But I think its best that those moments come along unexpectedly and those are the ones that I really, really appreciate you know when you’re looking out at people and you want to tell them how an excruciatingly big a moment it is for you

Playing live is a great proving ground for songwriters because you get an instant reaction. Have you ever got on stage and had something work a lot better that you though or something that’s not been as well received as you would have liked?

Yeah, there are songs like that. And I feel that with other people’s songs too. For whatever reason it fits, there’s something about it that makes people respond to in a way that’s so different than you would have thought. I’ve been surprised at Lark for the sing a long factor. I had no idea it was going to be like that. And other times you aim big and fall on your face. But most of the time it’s coldly seeing it. When I put out a record I put on the songs that I believe in and leave off the ones I don’t. And I feel that although some maybe more fun to play on stage I don’t feel like I’m naked. I can appreciate with detachment how other people feel about it.

One thing that draws people to your music is you strength as a lyricist. So Runs the World Away like the others is really cinematic and I said on my review that I couldn’t work out of it was by design or by accident. Is that a tried thing?

I definitely want to be cinematic. In fact I really do believe that. I was working on a certain type of song writing. There are a lot of songs that paint around the edges and that’s were their power comes from. They have little details and you put together the puzzle and the story. I feel that Neil Youngs After the Gold Rush is a moment like that. What’s it about? You come up with little touches of it and you can come up with a story out of that, which is totally awesome and satisfying. With a song like Another New World or Folk Bloodbath I wanted to try something different than that style. I wanted to fill in every detail so people could see the whole thing in their heads the way I saw it happening. And that was something I wanted to try with this record rather than something like Wings on Hello Starling. I wanted it to be a very specific story. One of the things that came out of that was that a really detailed story requires a really detailed musical landscape

One thing that makes a lot sense to me is that you have your first novel coming out, Bright’s Passage. You mentioned Mark Twain earlier but how much does literary work bleed into your song writing work?

I think it’s more than music or at least equal to. The tone of someone’s writing is so important. If you see a monologue, if you see Jack Nicolson talking, he has a tone and the power of the writing is coming out through him. It’s such a beautiful thing. If you read enough of someone you start to pick up their tone. I think that’s really important. Reading Flannery O’Conner, especially for this record, I really felt like I was talking a bath in her writing and her world view and what she though was funny. A lot of that seeped into my music even though none of it had much to do with her southern gothic style. But you have to put on new clothes and put on new masks to keep things interesting and to give yourself rules to work by.

Do you think Bright’s Passage will have a musical follow up?

I don’t think so. Mostly because I feel that world, good or not, is complete on its own and because I wanted to write something that had nothing to do with music at all.

Let’s talk about the fan element of being Josh Ritter. You’ve got massive fan base all over the world and in Ireland you are huge. All your fans put a lot of time, energy and money supporting you. Do you ever feel duty bound to being the Josh Ritter that everybody knows? Is there any part of you that wants to go off and make a heavy metal record?

(Laughs) Oh man, everyday. Yeah. I want to be on the new 3 Inches of Blood record (laughs). My personal feeling about that is that you work to build up a level of trust with your audience. When somebody pays $30 to see your show or buys your record they know that money is going towards something that is going to help me do what I’m going to do next. They know it’s not going in my pocket or going towards a Lamborghini. So every night is the chance to play the next show. And as soon as people start to feel you drifting away from that, they lose a little trust. So my duty to my audience is to continue to go in what ever weird direction I want to go. Maybe if our trust is good enough they won’t feel like it’s not a betrayal of their time, money or their belief.

You’ve picked up some famous fans along the way. Mary-Louise Parker wrote a note on the cover of this record and Rainn Wilson (American Office) cites you as his favourite songwriter of all time. Does fame take on a different dimension when it’s coming from other famous people?

I don’t know, that’s an interesting question. In the end everybody’s working and in the end that’s what it comes down to. Everybody’s working and hopefully if you’re lucky you get to do something you love to do. That’s all that I’ve seen that matters. I’ve met people that by all intents and purposes should be really happy but maybe they’re not. Then there are people who are in their element that are so excited and appreciative for what they have but also for where they can go. That doesn’t seen to change if your famous or not and doesn’t change anything for me other than it make me really happy that I like what I do.

You’re promoting So Runs the World Away now. New media and downloading plays a huge role now with the promotion and selling of records. Do you embrace it? Or do you think I’ll play Letterman, put out my record and that will be that?

It’s just not possible to do that anymore. You can’t expect the world to come and knock on your door. With all the media and social connection there are so many ways to get your music out there. And for me I have always just loved this part it’s such an exciting time and its all part of the whole big game. And there are people who complain about it but that’s like complaining about record labels. If you sign up for the game you’ve got to play it. I love it and of course there are times when I wish it was a little easier but everybody wishes their job was a little easier at times. And I got a great one so I’m not complaining (laughs.)

Yeah, it must be pretty good being Josh Ritter. You’re married, fifth studio release, big tours and a book coming out. You’re gone from Moscow Idaho to Providence Rhode Island via the rest of the world.

Yeah, I have a pretty charmed life.

It’s insane and a hell of a career for anyone. All this and you’re only 33. You’ve done so much, so what do you so next? Leonard Cohen finally got inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, do you look at the future now and lay down those kind markers and say by this age I’m going accomplish this? Do you have to move the goal posts to keep going?

That’s interesting. I’ve always wanted to do what I’m doing right now and I haven’t thought much beyond it. Maybe there is something else out there I want to so. I mean…yeah, that’s a good question. I want what other people want. More and more I realise that the musicians that I love and respect I do so because they’ve made good choices in the rest of their life. Does that make sense?

Absolutely. Im a huge Bruce Springsteen fan and when I look at his career and I think it’s amazing. To me he makes his records in threes; Greeting from Asbury Park, The Wild, The Innocent & The E-Street Shuffle and the Born to Run – that’s a whole story right there. And that’s want he does, he just keeps telling the story. And that’s what I’m looking for. Express your life at that moment in time, make me a good record and give me a good show. You can’t ask much more from someone.

Yeah, yeah, I agree.

And the great thing about what you do is that there isn’t a stop date so as long as you want to be Josh Ritter people are going to let you. That must be a freeing feeling?

Yeah it is. It’s good. It’s a good feeling to know that you can keep on going. There are other things that I want too. My twenties were spent on the road. I don’t always want to be like that, I don’t want to always be on the road. I don’t want to end up be someone who doesn’t have any other ties in the world. In some ways the road is so much easier than other parts of life but you can get way from a lot of stuff that maybe you shouldn’t get away from. I do believe there are other things and I’ll be interested to find those things. But it’s great that this is my job and my life and you’re right it’s a really exciting feeling.

The first thing he did when the interview was over was to double check that we were going to get chance to meet.  This just seems to be the kind of guy he is. In the ever growing circus of the music business it’s nice to talk to someone who is as genuine in character as they are in their craft. We talked for a little while longer about the road, the tour and recommended reads, all the while as open as he was for the interview.

Josh will be touring the UK from September 17th through September 23^rd. Check out joshritter.com/shows for more details.

Nicolas Rainmaker